CrossFit Strength Bias

Jeff and "Bingo",

very interesting article guys! Just one question that I'm sure many others who are interested in implementing CFSB will want to know: what kind of diet do you prescribe on this program? In your trials, did you continue eating the same # of zone blocks (if you were zoning at all) or did you up your food intake some? Thanks for any answers!

I'm so happy this article finally came out because it's been killing me keeping this a secret.

I'm about to finish my first consistent cycle and am starting to hit my stride and destroy old PRS.

My first 2 cycles I didn't get enough metcon, my metcons were designed poorly(my creations), and most importantly I wasn't recovering well. This program really will knock you on your ass HARD if you don't know how to recover properly. So eat and drink well, get intimate with your foam roller, and stretch out your HIPS!

For the record, I was CONSISTENT with my deadlifts and gymnastic skill work my first 2 cycles and had huge gains. Deadlift went from 405 to 430, did a free-standing HSPU(can only do 3-5 against a wall), muscle ups went from 5 to 9.

Bottom line is if you do this program correctly you will destroy every old PR you have ever had and you will be more fit. What is fitness you might be asking? It's increased work capacity over broad time and modal domains....never forget it or what goals you are training for.

Jeff and Bingo,

Programming absolutey is an art and you two are Leonardo Di Vinci and Michelangelo(I don't know too many great artists and I was watching the original live action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie today)

thank you for letting me be a guinea pig,
Adam Scheiner

P.S. People don't forget to have fun

Colin,
I have never really done full on Zone, I eyeball it, but I am pretty good with staying on paleo. I would say if you are doing this program the best way to know if you should increase your blocks is how well you are recovering. If you are sore it's because you need to eat more, drink more water (if urine is yellow drink until it's clear), or get more sleep. If you are getting enough sleep, drinking enough water, it probably means you need to eat more food. So eat lots and lots of delicious food (paleo) and you won't have to think too much about annoying blocks. BTW I'm writing this while eating a huge bar of dark chocolate, fat will be your friend.

Eh Adam, I'm just the Court Scribe, roughly on the same level as the Court Jester. The programming was 100% Jeff Martin with a little bit of influence from the "crash test dummies" in the pilot study. Credit for the development and refinement of this program goes to Jeff; both Jeff and I fully acknowledge the work that came before this program from Coach, Rip, Rut, and others, that this is an evolutionary program that is built on the backs of the giants who preceded us.

Nice article GD!
Thanks to you and Bingo for putting it together.

Jeff & Darrell

Great article. I'm curious about your opinions on the relationship between strength gains and improvement in benchmark workouts. You touched on the notion that stronger athletes have no reason to drop a light weight other than lack of oxygen... you also mentioned Bingo's decreased "Fran" time. How much credit do give his increased work capacity (4 minutes) to brute strength increase v.s. continued metabolic conditioning in the 1-15 minute range most associated with workouts like Fran, considering other athletes have noticed LOSS of ability under strict strength programs (myself included)?

I'm just very curious and have been trying to better understand this subject... as have many others.

thanks!

Bingo and Jeff....

Thank you. 'nuff said there....

This is really amazing, as 2 weeks ago I realized I'd lost some 1rm strength during the CFT and decided to start strenght-biasing myself. I had NO idea this was on the horizon and is it ever a welcome sight. Literally 2 weeks ago, I started adding in 3x5 and 5x3 sets for deadlifts and squats tip-toeing around the MP WOD's to get the most rested working sets on those lifts possible. I'm really excited about trying this out, and after I finish absorbing the info I'm going to jump on it.

I think there was clearly a need and a demand for this, you obviously knew that and that's why it's here now. I just find the timing amazing. Great work guys, keep it up. I can't "weight" to see where this goes.

Russell,

I'm no exercise physiologist, but I would say it's better to think of absolute strength and metabolic conditioning not as discrete components but as synergistic capabilities that work in tandem. That is, bingo maintained his baseline metabolic conditioning initially, and then improved it over the course of his number of cycles coupled with consistent strength gains. The point of this whole successful experiment was to maintain the CF philosophy of multi-lateral development of skills and work capacity over broad time and modal domains with a focus on developing applicable absolute strength.

When you think of CrossFit and the CF Strength Bias framework, I don't believe you should consider your body's adaptation as simply the sum of discrete stimuli, as CF has effectively demonstrated someone can deadlift 700 lbs. but run a 20 minute mile and likewise, a marathoner would destroy a 5k but have trouble getting through Diane with 95 lbs. The synergy between training effects is what gives CrossFit and CrossFit-driven focus frameworks such as CFSB or CF Endurance their "magic effect".

If your doing Crossfit and not gaining strength, you're probably just not training right. Two of my students have been doing crossfit for a month and they are already deadlifting over 300. They weigh 130 and 135 and had not been involved in any weight training before doing crossfit. I know 300 doesn't seem like a whole lot, but weighing only 130 and having only done crossfit for one month, I think that's pretty good to already be doing 2 1/2 times his BW.

The defense rests,

CROSSFITTERS ARE STRONG!!!

Thanks for the article Jeff and Bingo, I've been eagerly awaiting this since hearing of the program a couple of months ago on the message boards. My guess is CFSB will have many disciples. I'll be incorporating some of your principles into my next workout. KUDOS!

Excellent article. I've been noticing strength loss lately, so this really interests me.

Is there perhaps a website in the future like CrossFit Endurance? One of the things I love about CrossFit in general is that I can let the experts program stuff for me. That being said, until there is a website--if that's in the horizon at all--the layout you provided is very clear and user-friendly.

Thanks!

P.S. Do you know of anyone who has tried this program while intermittent fasting? If so, any thoughts on when to do the workouts relative to breaking the fast?

That is a very insightful article. When I'm ready, I hope to try it. It reminds me some of what Greg Everett said during a Crossfit Radio interview. He talked about supplementing strength. He didn't go into much detail, but he did talk about if you wanted to gain strength, start your workout with "heavy" lifts and then do your med-con. Ditto for endurance. Thanks for the article.

Great article, thanks!

So with added strength do you also see a reduction in injury, especially tendinitis?

And when referencing age and weight - isn't that only 2/3rds of the stats. What about height or weight/height ratio?

Thanks again,
Jeff

I am confused about the "Choose one of the protocols" section. When it shows up on the schedule do you do it with the corresponding exercise in the column? In week one it shows up on day 6 in the shoulder press column. Does that mean we pick a weight for shoulder press and do it with a protocol? Everything else makes sense to me except this part. Thanks.

I have the same question as William Curtis about the protocols. I also have a question about the METCONs. The ones following your 3x5s or 5x3s are they supposed to be along the lines of "heavy" metcons like the examples in the article or gymnastics centered (ie. "The Girls" type WODs). Additionally, is the metcon day after the rest day supposed to follow any particular programming? I just finished re-reading the "The Hard Routine" article (CFJ May 08)and agree that I need to be stressed to succeed, and like others have commented, if I create my own METCONs I may not meet the programming goals or make them too easy on myself. Are there any additional METCONs examples or programming out there?....site coming?

Hey Daniel,
There is an ongoing thread here (http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?p=361354#post361354) regarding heavy metcon ideas. I think the thread is currently at 33 pages of heavy metcon ideas and continues to grow. Have a look.

As for the other questions, I will leave them up to more knowledgable people than me.

Colin,
Some of us zoned others didn’t. Most of us ate fairly clean throughout. I increased my protein slightly, doubled my fat intake and lowered my carbs. I gained 8 pounds over the course of the project, bodyfat remained constant. A couple of the other guys gained 5-10 pounds as well. The teenager lost five pounds, but he is in wrestling season now and some of the weight loss has been due to that. Interestingly he has been able to continue making strength gains through the season and his Metcon has held up well.

Jeff,
I didn’t think to record height. I did record weight ... except for my female subject that refused to report hers.

Daniel
Regarding Heavy metcons, I usually plugged them in on Tuesday’s. Bingo is already on me to put a list of heavy metcons we have used out, but you can always search the mainpage, as Bingo stated we have been posting.

Jean-Luc,
In the article Bingo states just that. If you are following the mainpage WOD’s and not getting stronger you are probably not putting enough intensity into the strength days offered up. No reason to strike up a defense, in fact a quick search on the message board will show that Bingo and I have been waging a rather lonely war for a couple of years telling people that you can get strong doing CrossFit.

Which really brings us to our program. It is CrossFit, and we are CrossFitters. Trainers, Coaches and athletes. We may choose to emphasize endurance for awhile, or strength, or gymnastics, but we do it within the CrossFit framework, with the goal of increasing work capacity over broad time and modal domains.

i've had a layoff from crossfit for a couple of months - is it inappropriate for me to start CFSB right off the bat? I'm guessing I have the prerequisite mastery of technique, but probably not the intensity

Jeff and Darrell,
Thanks for the article. I have wrote in on rest days and asked if others had been loosing strength. Sorry Lean-Luc but Im going to have to disagree with you partly. If you come from years of traing bodybuilding style, you will loose strength in some of your lifts ie:benchpress, tricepts, and bicepts. However, I have gained more "fitness". My cardio is much better than before I started crossfitting.

I have been adding in heavy chest days once a week along with following the WOD's. My chest strength has started to come back up. My main question that I have for you is how much to still follow the main site WOD's. I know you said that you could add these strength components before each WOD. Did you find this effective or will it be overtraining? I am going to try to do this before each WOD and see how my body reacts to it. Im sure a heavy front squat day would not be very effective if you had to follow it with Fran as a WOD.

Thanks guys,
I'd like to see more on this topic in the future.

Interesting article. I too have noticed a decrease in total strength output, however, this may be due to a change in body composition (too lean).

I would be interested to see more results regarding the impact on metcon output.

Daniel and William - your choice of protocols on the Wk 1 Press day is either a multi set effort of 10, 7 and 4 reps with a minute or so rest between sets OR a single high rep set of somewhere between 10 and 15 reps.

You will see a similar choice on subsequent deadlift days.

High rep back squats are limited to a single high rep set performed after your ME front squats. No multi set option is provided for back squats as these were found too taxing to recover from.

Cheers, kempie

To all enquiring about the choice of WOD's. You will see time frames specified for the WOD after the ME prescription for the day.

The aim is to pick a WOD that fit's in that time frame. A couple of options present themselves here. Firstly, to look at the CF.com WOD and tweak it to satisfy your requirements. Maybe AMRAP 20 becomes AMRAP 10 or 5 rounds for time becomes 3 rounds. 21-15-9 is almost always gonna be short enough to work but maybe you can load it up a little and go 15-12-9 ... This path, using CF.com as a guide will help you preserve the variety in your training.

Alternatively, you can devise workouts of your own that satisfy your personal weaknesses, preferences, equipment limitations etc. Personally, I ran this program with a minor sleep deficit so bang for buck was my priority. Cue lots of short WOD's, heavy and light. This approach can be very effective so long as you avoid the temptation to cherry pick or avoid your weaknesses.

One of the reasons the CFSB is recommended for intermediate or long term Crossfitters is that those individuals will have enough familiarity with the program to figure these issues out for themselves. Not to say that further help can't or won't be provided but maybe a guide as to whether this program is necessarily right for you now.

Cheers, kempie

I have a couple of questions for the authors or testers of the program -

1. For the ME work are you suggesting either a 5x5 or 5x3 (unless you hit a new 5 rep or 3 rep PR before topping out, you're to stop the lift)?

2. When and for what lifts are the 1 x 20 to be rotated in?

3. When and for what lifts are the 10-7-5, 12-9-6, 15-12-9, 21-15-9 to be rotated in?

4. Asking 2 & 3, as I don't think you're suggesting one of these (1 x 20, 10-7-5, 12-9-6, 15-12-9, 21-15-9) on TOP of doing the 5x5/5x3

Michael,

thanks for the response. I see what you are saying, and there is no doubt in my mind that performance in benchmark workouts requires a synergistic relationship between strength and anaerobic capacity for the best performance- that's intentional.
My question comes from the fact that training adaptation IS very specific, and there is some disagreement as to the carry-over of strength to metcon performance. For instance, it has been proposed that a CF athlete with a 10:00 Fran time, simply by increasing brute strength in the Thruster, could drop that time. We seem to see examples that say quite the opposite, but does that mean strength has NO effect on improving performance in this type of WOD? Is there a ceiling to the effectiveness of increased strength proportional to the 95# being lifted? No training exists in a vacuum, so it becomes difficult to sort out what effects what.

Basically there are a lot of unanswered questions and I was really curious to get Jeff's opinion (though he seems to have missed this)

Hi! I am one of the CFSB testers.

David,
1. Some days it is prescribed which of the rep schemes to follow. Other days, it is your choice. For example, referencing page 9 of the article - For week one / deadlifts - the 3x3 ME protocol is prescribed. But for week 2 / deadlifts- it's your choice as to whether you do 3x3 or 3x5.

2 & 3. As you're doing the full program, it is written in when to add those protocols. For instance, week 1 / front squat day - you'll see the 1x15-20 for back squats.

Note: if you're just beginning the program, it's recommended to add in protocols one at a time. See page 7 of the article, "Entry Phase". Say on "Front Squat" day - you wouldn't want to do both the ME plus the high-rep sets right off the bat. Wait a few weeks (maybe one full cycle) to acclimate yourself to the program.

4. Once you're doing the full program - Yes! ;)
You would do ONE of 5x3 or 3x3; PLUS - ONE of (1-20, 10-7-5, 12-9-6, etc.)

-Anita

#24 / Michael - I'm sure Jeff will answer your questions specifically, but as examples here's what I found, in ascending order, over 10 weeks. (Disclaimer - loads may seem rather light to you guys ...)
1. Yes, ME strength increased (ex. 5 ME back squats from 90# to 120#)
2. But high rep sets increased more dramatically, and those do translate logically to metcons. (ex. deadlifts, 1x20 went from 90# to 120#). I'm able to do metcon WODs both - with much heavier loads, and at comparable times, or faster.
3. The most significant improvement though, for me, is the recovery from metcons. Even with heavier loads, I don't feel as wasted as before. It's very apparent that my conditioning increased significantly with the structured ME and high-rep work.
I hope that helps in the meantime.

Russ:

It took me 1.5 years to do "Fran" as Rx'd; that's how long it took me to be fit enough in all senses of the word to do the required work. This may seem like a long time to some, but in my case I am essentially a desk jockey, was 47 years old, and I have some shoulder issues from my days as a football player. I was then stuck around 10:00 for a year or so. I failed because I just wasn't strong enough, didn't have enough muscle endurance to keep doing the 95# thrusters. At the end of a 10:00 "Fran" I was tired and sore, but not shattered.

After one round of CFSB, 6 weeks of 2 CFSB WOD's and 3 Main Page WOD's per week (total of 5), THAT'S when my time dropped from 9:22 to 6:38 (thrusters from a rack). The difference was that I didn't have to put the bar down as often in the thrusters because they were now "lighter" as I was stronger.

The important question to be answered is whether I would have achieved this (or my as Rx'd sub-10 "Diane") simply by continuing to do the Main Page WOD's. I think the answer is yes, but it would have taken me a much longer time to achieve that since the chink in this part of my armor was/is pure strength and muscle endurance. However, unlike the strategy wherein you LEAVE Crossfit to attack that one domain I was able to at least maintain my met-con (I probably improved my short duration met-con actually) while increasing my strength.

Hope that is a more direct answer to your question.

--bingo

Russell,
I don't think Jeff ignored your comment, it's just that Mike Hom was one of the co-developers of the CFSB program and Jeff probably considers the question answered.
Jeff attributes the initial development of the program to work he and Mike did together.

Craig
A slightly lapsed CFSB guinea-pig.
Back on track now.

Anita,

Thanks for the reply!

HOLY SMOKES! Thanks to your reply, I realized in skimming through the article that I stopped after the BIO section on Daryl & Jeff and missed the last 3 pages with the charts!

Thanks again!

David

Anita/Darrell,

thanks for your time!

Jeff and Bingo-

Great work and thanks for laying this out in an organized fashion.

Any thoughts on a CFSB version 2.0 to mix in the olympic style lifts with the basic barbell stuff?

Hi, Really good article. A topic i think many of us have played with ourselves.
I have a question for people who practice multiple sports. For instance i do cross fit 4 times a week and bjj 3 times a week doubling up my training at least twice a week (crssfit am/ bjj pm.) would this type of program be too much for the multi sport athlete? I would like to add some strength but not at the risk of injury or burnout.
If you have any examples of multi sport athletes on your program that would be great too. I notice Jeff mentioned a wrestler and i'd love to know how the program affected his performance.

Finally! I've been waiting for something like this for a while. If we can have Crossfit endurance and Crossfit for SEALS, why not Crossfit with a strength bias? I agree with whoever said it above, if you're already strong, you will not see absolute strength gains doing the WOD. For people who want the overall fitness that Crossfit brings but still want to maintain a higher level of absolute strength (people like me), this program looks great! Thanks a million for seeing that there was a segment being underserved in the Crossfit community.

Not only a fantastic article but a great example of how Crossfit itself adapts and improves through the commitment, generosity and hard work of it's greatest exponents. Thanks Jeff.

Ok, First I just a humble lurker on the main WOD and don't know a whole lot about programing. But I recently decided a few months ago that I was in the same boat as Bingo. My strength was not up to pair as my other physical skills. There really wasn't a workout metcon or otherwise that would leave me utterly exhausted. I always experienced muscle failure long before any sort of met con meltdown. So recognizing that, I decided to listen to the "Godfather" (Rippetoe) and get some strength. For the past two months I've been doing his starting strength program and have had these increases..

BW 160 to 180
Height 5' 11"

Squat 225 to 310 3x5 rep scheme
DL 325 to 375 1x5 rep scheme
Press 95 to 125 3x5 rep scheme
bench 165 to 215 3x5 rep scheme
power clean 165 to 185 5x3 rep scheme

(all weights in lbs)

And I'm still going..

Now that being said, I'm sure when I switch back to CF I'm going to get destroyed by the met cons and so forth. Like some people have commented on before, people with a strength background that initially start CF always seem to do better. I would argue the fact that the base of the pyramid had been laid with their strength training and CF completed their overall training. When I first started CF I never had any real strength program.

I guess what I'm saying in all of this, is that doing a pure strength programing might be better for the beginner and I would direct such people over to Rippeote. Obviously though, that's why the programing listed in the article is for intermediate to advance CFitters.

Chad

There is not much more to said. Crossfit embraces strength and fitness training. In the near future I will be creating a Performance Board in our high school weight room. This will post times or numbers relating to training results. Gone will be the idea of a Records Board since that is the refelction of competition. Yes there is a need for each in theier right demension, but after reading this article it only solidified my belief and understanding of a broader picture of Crossfit. The WODS are great and I have seen a postive result at 53 years old, but after reading what this program has to offer, it only makes me jealous that I am not 20-30 years younger. Not that I want igger numbers, only that I would get those 20-30 years to train. I belive in Crossfit and I also believe in the development of strength. Need to read more and learn more. Good luck to all Crossfit trainers.

Chad, we in the CFSB pilot study would politely disagree in some respects with that position. In fact, Jeff and I have done so repeatedly on the Message Board over the last couple of years. Here, in a nutshell, is what we have said over and over:

If your primary concern is strength then there is simply no better place to go than to anything that Coach Rip has written, ie. Starting Strength, Practical Programming, and tons of stuff on CF (you would do very well with Coach Rut, too). However, if you are interested in achieving fitness across time and modal domains IN ADDITION TO strength why would you delay the start of that journey? Crossfit is a STRENGTH and conditioning program; people get strong doing Crossfit.

CFSB is a long-term project, something that the "crash test dummies" are still committed to developing. At some point we will have a version that seems to be appropriate (safe, reliable, reproducible) for beginner athletes, or someone else will be so interested in that particular subset of Crossfitters that s/he will get to it before the CFSB group. But for now, especially for Jeff and for me, we simply can't understand the "leave CF" or "wait to start" CF advice for the athlete who is interested in the benefits that Crossfit provides.

Just 3-2-1...Go!

Chad,
I respectfully disagree with the statement, "Like some people have commented on before, people with a strength background that initially start CF always seem to do better." It has been repeated often, but not proven out in my practice. I have been a CrossFit affiliate for almost 5 years. I would say the triathletes do better. They understand how to operate under duress and the strength needed to complete the WODs comes very quickly.

Nobody is arguing the strength gains that can be made using Starting Strength. We are making the case that a person can make significant strength gains while doing CrossFit and continue to increase their work capacity.
I weigh about the same as you Chad, but have a few more years on me. At 49, and 165-170#'s I deadlifted 430 x 1 a couple of weeks ago, and 415 x 3 last week and 325 x 15. This translated to a huge drop in my Linda time as I never had to break my deadlifts, in fact the deadlifts seemed like a break.

Another example, last week I did a WOD that consisted of:
Run 200
15 Power Cleans, 135
Run 200
12 Power Cleans, 155
Run 200
9 Power Cleans, 185
Run 200
6 Power Cleans, 200
Run 200
1 Power Cleans, 210 (pr)
2 Power Cleans, 215 (pr)

215 is 30 to 35#'s over my bodyweight, but more importantly this was accomplished with a high heart rate, and after a tremendous amount of work. That translates to significant increased work capacity, which for me is of primary importance.

Patrick, no reason to reinvent the wheel...we have Greg Everett! Greg has done some really interesting and inventive stuff with CF and O-lifting, as for that matter has Coach B! I would spend some time on Coach B's site or Catalyst Athletics/Performance Menu. For sure you could play around with substituting o-lifts for some of the slow lifts in CFSB, but if you are really interested in fitness with and through Olympic lifting go to the source -> Coach Burgener and Greg Everett!

Been playing around with something similar since November - heavy basic compound lifts at the start of a workout, then an abridged main WOD. I've PB'd nearly every full length WOD I've done this year, which I feel is down to getting heavy often. Nice to have 'official' affirmation from so many others doing the same thing around the world, noticing the same results and smiling the same grim, defiant and sweaty smiles as they lurch home after training.

CFSB is the path I shall continue walking for the forseeable future.

Thanks for your reply Darrell. That's what I thought you were going to say.

Fantastic article! Thank you Coach Jeff and Bingo!

Hey guys and gals,

Just to make a comment, as one of Jeff's guinea pigs, this program helped me by by being a way to make the strength training in cfit work better for me. I workout some at home, some at my affiliate, but was having some trouble making significant strength gains for a couple of reasons:

The 3 on 1 off, is trickier, not impossible, but trickier, for the workin' man or woman with kids and job and that stuff. Little things: can't make it to the gym because of job, home, whatever so you miss a strength day. Or your rest day was 5x5 deadlift day. Or whatever, but if you don't live at the box, or don't have personal time with the trainers, you know what I mean. I mean, even the affiliates shut down once in a while. :-)

This program works out fantastically on a 3-1-2-1 schedule. Or, if my hams are fried from the two heavy days of on Mon and Tues, then I reverse it and do a 2-1-3-1. Would 3-1 be ideal? You betcha. Sometimes you gotta make accommodations and this helps. Between this and the mainsite wods, you have a great recipe.

Now I can do some of my lifting at home in the AM, and then with my affiliate Peeps do a PM WOD. Those of you with busy households know how coming home can kind of kill the ability for you to work out. I say this as an attorney (with a nurse wife, who works 12 hour shifts) and two kids, one of them special needs.

This protocol lets me get more done, because even if I only have time for ONE (which ever it ends up being ME or Metcon) workout, I can get the job done and I keep moving forward. Was I moving forward on Main Site crossfit? Absolutely. It turned a 205lb fatty into a 175lb slim trim dude again. However, this has helped immensely though, with my gains being consistent and forward moving (mostly. ;-))

Patrick

David,
Maybe the best way to answer the questions you have would be to show a couple of days. The first is my deadlift day from a early December:
Deadlift
355 x 3
375 x 3
395 x 3 (pr)

335 x 12 (pr)

AMRAP in 15
10 Power Cleans, 135#
5 Box Jumps, 42”

9 rounds + 1 clean

The next is Front squat day:
Front Squat
210 x 3
225 x 3
235 x 3 (pr)

Back squat
235 x 20 (pr)

3 rounds
200 M run
20 OHS, 135#
20 Ring Push ups
200 M Run
15 OHS, 135#
15 Ring Push ups
200 M Run
10 OHS, 135#
10 Ring Push ups

Does this start to answer your questions?

I would like to commend Jeff for his work in increasing the CF knowledge base. His work on the CFSB and creating CFKids with his wife is invaluable to our community.
Thanks.
Sean McCue

Adding to Sean's very nice comments - And for all the work Jeff, Mikki, and team do with the daily WOD scaling & newbie assistance they provide on the BrandX forum. There's many of us who would not have continued with CrossFit without the help they've given us.
-Anita

Excellent article, thanks Jeff and Darrell. This was just the thing I was looking for, but didn't know it. I just PR'd in the last CFT after doing a heavy-ish metcon: 21-15-9 of deadlift @225 and ring dips. I was thinking there was a correlation between the two events, but didn't know how to put together a program to duplicate it.

I plan to implement CFSB this week and had just one question about the chart. When you choose the protocol 12=>15, or 10=>15, what does that mean? I'm stumped.

Murray,

The protocol 12=>15 means one set, in the 12-15 rep range at a single weight. You pick the set length.

Patrick

Dangit, I seriously had just spent time putting together a program just like this (complete with gymnastics at the beginning and everything), and was convinced just a week ago to change back to the mainpage WOD for my strength goals.

Guess I'm going back to what I thought was going to work in the first place, just slightly modified.

The article was great - thanks for all of the work putting it together. My question - what have you seen as far as improvements on the bodyweight metcons? I.e. - Angie, Cindy? What about a longer one like Murph?
Thanks

Great article guys. I think there are some areas that can be polished with more testing, but definitely going in the right direction. Keep it up!

Great stuff, Jeff and Bingo. Having played around with a similar program and wondered how to optimize it, I really appreciate the time and energy that went into developing this protocol and tracking results. The high-rep DL, BS, SP work is an interesting element. It looks like a ton of volume with that in there. Did any of your athletes have trouble keeping up this workload or frequently lose their edge on the post high-rep metcons?

Great stuff gentlemen,

As a little guy (relatively), I do well with body weight. Crossfit has done wonders for my strength and while I feel strong for my size, I still find myself dropping a lot of bars during workouts. I'm going to take this next week to establish current 1,3,5 and 20 rep max's for these lifts to aid in progress documentation, and then begin the CFSB program next monday.

If anyone wants a CFSB pre-made spreadsheet, just let me know. I have one with a list of exercises for the Metcons, a list of skills to work, and a before/after column. I also replaced 2 of the 5 weekly gymnastics/skills with tabata. Because who doesn't love tabata?

Casper
24yo 150lb

Patrick (Haskell)

I can't speak for Jeff, but I was one of his guinea pigs, and for me, the only difficulty with the high rep stuff was the shoulder work which seemed more taxing than the high rep back squats or deads. Now, I'm not a fire breather by anyone's stretch of the imagination, so take what I say with a critical eye and the fact I'm only one data point. Were there some after effects? Yes. But they were usually something like, if I did deads in the AM and then had a kettlebell workout pm (I do some of my strength work at home with classes at my affiliate), yeah I could see I'd lost some hip pop. Luck of the draw and all that, be ready for anything, suck it up drive one. But, the high rep stuff, combined with a day or two of rest from that activity didn't seem to hurt me in the least (age 43, skinny arse frame). In fact, I'm pretty sure the high rep back squats are what allow me to do say, 50 air squats unbroken now, which I couldn't do before starting cfsb. It's not pleasant, but I don't have to stop. The deads, specifically, I can't speak for, I'm still working up to higher weights for me.

Robert Flynn

As for longer metcons, I did a half murph halfway through my second rotation and set a pr on the first 800 meters, and I wasn't killing myself, because there was some more work to do . . . and my air squat cycle rate was way up. But my times are trending downward (not like every time, more well more often than not), and my strength is improving. I think Jeff has attempted to strike the right balance and has succeeded.

I also think Mr. Bainbridge is right, that this is the beginning not the end and there will be more to learn, but it's a pretty good foundation.

Alright, maybe a dumb question but I'll ask it anyways. My buddy is currently in the same boat I was a few months ago before I started "starting strength". i.e. experiencing muscle fatigue long before met con meltdown. Would you recommend CFSB then? Or what have you in the past recommended for clients with similar road blocks?

Chad

Chad,
I'll answer you first. I am a Crossfit trainer. I believe strongly in the mainpage WOD, in fact speaking as a longtime affiliate owner I would say most affiliates would do well to follow the programming found on the mainpage more. Part of the idea behind CFSB was that it would easily overlay onto the mainpage WOD. What I guess I'm saying is I don't recommend leaving CrossFit ever if your goal is to be fit. I am open to further discussion on the topic of the best way to get beginning CrossFitters up to speed on the mainpage WOD.

Patrick Haskell,
We recommend this version of CFSB for intermediate and advanced CrossFitters, thank you Anthony for pointing out that it could be construed that we were talking about lifters when using these terms. My experience is that advanced Crossfitters can tolerate a tremendous amount of work, a work load that would in fact crush someone not used to this type of training, and thrive doing it. That being said none of us ever made huge jumps in weights used. We were satisfied with 5# pr's and walked away. With the high rep sets we were satisfied with getting a few more reps each week until we got 20 reps and then we added only 5-10# the next week and dropped our reps from 20 to 12-15 and built it back up. We carefully nudged the upper end each week. Some of the most spectacular crashes came from people who failed to listen to this advice.

Regarding Metcons and training in general. Certainly we all had our ups and downs that is natural and normal for anyone training, but we have all generally moved forward. Mike Hom (reply number 8 here) had to travel for work the last two weeks, Friday he drug himself into the gym not feeling great. He PR'd his deadlift at 510, then we wanted him to do a quick metcon so he did 5 minutes of Cindy and got 9 rounds. Connor, who is at the end of his wrestling season, pr'd his deadlift with a 345 x 3, well over double bodyweight. He has continued to make progress in both the metcon and strength arenas, with the extra demands placed on him during wrestling. I believe the two of them can tolerate this type of training due to there longtime exposure and adherence to CrossFit.

Bingo, Jeff,
Great article, forgot to say that in my previous post, and I am really looking forward to starting it. Do you adhere to any specific warm up? I am pretty addicted to the standard CF warm up, do you do anything different?

Enough was said yet I would like to share my experience as well - I started to play with strength in CF after barbell certification (after two years of pure crossfit) and after month or to of pure strength work I morphed my program into the ME Black Box (metcon-ME-metcon-off). After one and half month of this I PR almost everything. And I mean everything - obviously ME Squats, DL, Presses etc. but also Cindy, Fran, rowing WOD, running (!).
Now I did more or less CF for about next year, my own programming (which was mistake...) and don't get any gains at all for looong time.
So back to strength I went. And now - I did 8 weeks of strength only, basically ME days, DE days and only back squat and bench press plus some other exercises like strict pullups (no kipping), GHD situps etc. No metcon for 8 weeks. when I was about to max and test my squat/bench/DL I have to travel because of the work and I stayed away for 2 weeks with only 3 trainings in this time period (lot of work, really a lot). I did tabata squat/pushups, once clapping pushups and DU, once DB thruster, dl, clean combo for 20 minutes.
When I arrived home I decided to do Fran (as my strength cycle was destroyed anyway and as Fran is THE *benchmark* I just wanted to know. My fastest Fran ever was 7:01.
This time though I did it in 5:42. First time ever I was able to finish first thrusters round unbroken. It was so fast (for me...) that I didn't even have time to get tired :) Of course some other areas and skills could be lacking but I would build them again .
But for me - lessons learned - strength is the key here, even for metcons. You just have to be strong, it's such big advantage :)

I have a question in regards to the main lifts: Back Squat, Deadlift, Front Squat, and Shoulder Press. Is there a reason as to the specific order of the lifts each week? Won’t your body recognize the pattern, adapt, and plateau (despite the ability to randomly choose sets & reps)? Would it be better to throw the lifts into a hopper and choose them at random each day, not repeating the same lift twice in one week?

Great article!

Great article guys!

I plan to give this a run.

One quick question - I think the "Franish" reps for the Thrusters on page 4 should read 24/18/12, correct?

Thanks,

Josh

Josh, the reps are correct. 15-12-9 with a heavier thruster load and 24-18-12 PU. Fewer reps with a heavier load and more reps with PU to aim for a similar Franish time to Fran but with more weight. Short, heavy, brutal!

Warm-ups were left to the individual. All of the participants had been training for some time and were familiar with their own requirements in that area.

Anita for example likes a thorough warm-up, especially before the ME work.
Jeff is famous for his lack of warm-ups. They go something like "load the bar, look at the bar, lift the bar". :-)

The rest of us fell in the middle ground somewhere.

Bingo -

I was trying to correct an apparent typo but seem to have made it worse... From the article"(for example, 1/2 Angie as a bodyweight
session, or a “Franish” 12-9-6 135-lb. thruster/24-28-12
PU)."

My point was (at least how I understood "Franish") is that the Pullups are supposed to be 24/18/12. Sorry, I typed "thruster" in my first post when I meant Pullup. So the "28" should be "18" correct?

Thanks!
Josh

First off, love this article.

I have been looking to add strength days in my routine and I originally started by doing the starting strength work outs from Coach Rip on the last day of every 3 on 1 off cycle (to keep it random and constantly varied) I had good gains and went back to doing strictly MP wods since January 1.

I will continue to do the main page wods and do these lifts either before or after (even a few hours after if the main page wod smokes me) and see how they go.

Do you think it will be too much for me to handle? I know everybody is different and I don't want to over train. Ihave heard so much this past few months about how all the fire breathers take their rest days very seriously.

Another question, If there is a rest day on MP and I'm on Front Squats should I just do the front squats or take the entire day off.

Thanks for your knowledge and experience.

Cass

Darrell great write up as the court scribe.

Jeff this is just further proof that you are one of the primer coaches the CF community lucky enough to have. As a CFSB test dummy I've gotta say thanks for the excellent program and for providing an answer to those of us who want to focus on strength within the framework of crossfit. When done correctly CFSB will give you strength AND metcon gains.

Looking forward to see how this grows from here.

Joe 'Axel Bear'

Jeff and Bingo, thanks for the great article.

I agree with your prescription that this protocol should be reserved for intermediate and advanced CrossFitters. I have diligently been following the HQ 3-day cycles since June 1, 2008 (8 months) and I continue to make strength and time gains on a fairly steady basis. When I start to plateau, I will probably mix in an 8 week cycle once a year or so....

I really like the idea of doing the high number sets for conditioning purposes.

I think this is an important discussion for Crossfitter's to keep having. The Hopper Model of fitness suggests that we should go head long after our real and perceived weaknesses. Strength and Power are clearly large holes for many of us.

I feel compelled however to make a few comments.

I have a clinical Doctorate in Physical Therapy. I do not have a PhD in Exercise Physiology and I was not contacted by the authors to comment on my experiences.

My experiment foregoing all metabolic condition for about 5 weeks was my own. I am on record as saying that I do not recommend that people give up all of their metabolic conditioning while biasing there programming to address their strength "weaknesses". I'm sure that Rip is on the record as saying he would not council his athletes wishing to get stronger AND improve their Crossfit to stop the met-con completely. The opposite is true. When I spoke with Rip about my experiment, he chided me for not doing enough GPP/Met con stuff. In retrospect this was an error on my part but I wanted to see what the outer margins felt like. I had a 437 Fight Gone Bad and a 1:51 Grace. I was willing to sacrifice some temporary work capacity for a huge increase in my ability to move big weights around. It was my performance alone that I was risking.

I would say also, it worked. It wasn't elegant or efficient. And if my life or sport depended on my fitness during that time when I was just training heavy, I could have been in real trouble. I suffered terribly working my way back to legitimate work capacity, but in about 5 weeks more, was ultimately much better able to complete say, a workout like Isabelle in three minutes while being able to overhead squat 285. Again, the experiment was mine. As an aside, my blood pressure went up during the weights only time and I noted that I had begun to long for "easy" met-con like Helen and Fran.

I think what is significant to note is that during by period of metabolic reclamation, I didn't loose much of the absolute gains I made in my strength.
My peak strength appeared to be a very stable variable although very hard to develop. I was able to regain my metabolic prowess in about 5 weeks (10 plus weeks of total messing around). I did not however get any stronger during this time period. I went out of my way in fact to NOT train heavier than what would be prescribed in a typical benchmark WOD, then I competed in a Crossfit Total Meet and hit something like 1050.

Is it very Crossfit to experiment on yourself? Hell yeah it is. Especially when your life, or someone else's isn't on the line.

Is it reasonable and required to identify weaknesses and to make them strengths? You bet. That is our mandate. Becoming obsessed with improving your clean or front squat is no different than working on getting a muscle up or a handstand pushup. If you think your strength and power is a problem, it probably is. Will doing Murph get you a bigger squat? The answer is no. Is is important to be able to do Murph in the first place? Yes, and that's what sets us apart. Just be clear about the compromises you are willing to make chasing capacity.

There are lots of ways to get stronger so that you can be better at Crossfit.
Just be sure you are keeping track of what's going in and out of the black box, and how long it took you to get better. And you should be getting better. At everything. Overall progress that occurs a half step at a time is probably a better way to go. Identify what you aren't good at, and while keeping one eye on the shop, get after it.

Kelly Starrett

Thanks to Dr. Starrett for clearing up that glaring error: if he had a PhD. in exercise physiology we wouldn't be the tight compadres we definitely are. And I thank him publicly for clearing up any misconceptions some folks may have about my training recommendations: I have never endorsed the cessation of metcon training for intermediate and advanced CrossFit athletes trying to increase strength for the purpose of increased work capacity across broad time and modal domains. I do endorse getting stronger at all levels of training advancement in the proper context of accomplishing training objectives.

Rip

I'm one of those CFers from a triathlon background. I quickly found that long, body weight wods were great fun, and my performance at the filthy fifty, Cindy, and Murph increased dramatically. Then there's the 3 bars of death which involves a serious time committment and some fudging on my weight if you know what I mean. After knee surgery in June, I found that my strength, such as it was, had declined significantly. Josh murphy and I decided to do Starting Strength for 12 weeks or so, principally so I could get as strong as possible, knowing that I was neglecting my metcon abililty. Given my background, I felt that metcon work could be readily dusted off after a couple of weeks. josh and I discussed what we should do after SS, and, like manna from the heavens, CFSB comes along. Gant Grimes has written about this type of programming and Amik Jones has posted some helpful on the message boards. Anyway, here's my take: I love the heavy lifts. thanks Rip. I also love gasping for air after a nasty metcon. There you have it: if it feels good, do it! Thanks Jeff and Darrell.

Many thanks to Kelly and Coach Rip for their comments.

Jeff answered tons of questions about CFSB on CF Radio last night. If you didn't get a chance to hear it and if you are curious about CFSB take a little time and listen to Neil and Jeff on last night's episode.

It's "useful" ;=)

Hi all, great article.

I did have two questions:

1) Could the Bench press(I know I know, not a CF fav, but when i tried following MP WOD my bench plummeted) be added? I don't want to remove anything, I was thinking of adding it on top of one of the other days.

2) Is 5 days of metcons a week perhaps excessive? I would think on the three in a row section, perhaps taking a day off from metcon would help, unless the two off days are enough.

Thoughts?

Jeff,
great article. Brought some very interesting points, the only thing, Connor is barely going 90 degrees with his back squat. He should be going into a full squatting position those PR's wouldn't stand in my book. In order to go heavy you must keep good form and perform a full squat. Or else he is only doing half the work.

I want to echo Bingo's thanks to Rip and Kelly.

James got your email and I respond further there. Some of us have been playing with cycling the Bench Press and Press on alternate weeks to good effect.

Adonis,
Different squats for different purposes. With the back squat we are trying to move as much weight as possible so that we get really strong. Coach Rip has defined the bottom of the squat position in his article on the CrossFit Total as:
"The hips are lowered until the top surfaces of both of the legs at the hip joint are lower than the knees, and then the bar is lifted back up. The bottom position is identified by A) the apex of the crease in the shorts formed as the hips are lowered, B) the surface of the top of the patella, C) the plane formed by a straight line between the two, and D) the dipping of the hip end of that plane below horizontal."
For the back squat Connor is going deep enough. For the front squat or OHS we require greater depth. We want to take the strength and range of motion acquired there and apply it to the receiving position of the clean and snatch.
There are problems with his squat. Namely in the hips, setting his back, and bar path which throws him forward a little. The hips and back need to be fixed as they will lead to injury if he doesn't correct them. The bar path and other form issues are due to "Its Really Heavy". Paraphrasing Rip, if you don't see some form deterioration your not doing a pr set.

I'm the guy referred to in this article as "Axel Bear's Cousin" and I'd like to make a couple of points. An athlete is going to achieve whatever he concentrates on in a program. If you want to be in great metcon shape and accelerate strength gains faster, then CFSB is the way to go. If you want to just increase power and don't give a flip about how fast you can do Fran or Grace, then do a concentrated power program. This is obviously true otherwise power athletes would be doing metcon workouts and running, etc, etc. After doing the "mainpage" CF workouts for 10 months, I was a little disappointed in my strength gains. I also wanted to pack on some more weight, so the method applied was out of Rippetoes Practical Programming. During the 6 weeks I made significant gains in strength, and my body weight climbed from 180lbs to 197lbs. This surely factored into my much slower Fran time. Now, after doing CFSB for several weeks and getting off the pure power program, my strength gains are still climbing, my metcons are back where they were previously and I weigh 195lbs. To me it was worth it to "specialize" on the power and weight gains for a short period of time and then get back to CFSB. I'm now a bigger, stronger athlete and my metcon times are back where they should be. I plan on doing CF for a really long time, actually, it's a part of my life as much as eating or sleeping, and that being said, I don't see the big deal in
concentrating on something for a while to get really good at it, and then get back into metcon shape. For me at least, metcon alwasy comes back quickly, it's just a matter of effort. For example if I want to improve my snatch, there's no way I can improve to a satisfactory level when it's prescribed in the program once every three weeks. My point is that concentration is a good thing...and CFSB is a great method to apply for "concentrating" on strength gains and maintaining metcon.

Jeff or Bingo,

It was mentioned in the article that you were posting your metcon workouts in the comments section of the main page. Would you mind giving us the start date of one of your programs so I can use your heavy metcons in my CFSB program? The art is in the programming and my attempts to program for myself have been miserable failures.

Thanks,

Lucas

Lucas:

Jeff started posting his WOD's right after the end of the Games last summer after I nagged him to get back on the Comments. I started at the end of July. All of my CFSB WOD's were labeled "Crossfit Strength Experiment" and there were typically two per week ( I can't fit the entire CFSB into my schedule, or into my body for that matter!).

At some point when the CFSB working group can get to it we will put together a follow-up article or thread on the Message Board with CFSB-style heavy met-cons as well as some guidance regarding how to plug them in (a CFE-type site would have to be approved by Coach and Lauren and they've got way more important stuff on their plates right now). Remember that in the mean time you can use the MP met-cons and alter them to achieve your goal that day. Scale them to get yourself into the correct time range per CFSB by increasing weight or decreasing reps/rounds. For example I changed the 2/14/09 MP WOD to 7 RFT 95# SDHP 5 reps/95# Push press 5 Reps (both of which are heavy for me) and got an 8:30 workout.

Good luck. Hope you have fun and that the program matches up with your personal goals.

--bingo

Hey James, would love to see the spreadsheet.

Hi, I had a couple questions about this, I just started the program, and was wondering about some of things on the chart at the end of the article:
1. In the exercise category it says choose one of the following 3x5 or 5x3
but then also says choose a protocol. So is the intent then that after you
get done with your heavy set you then do a protocol of the same exercise?
2. Also in the exercise category there are numbers with an arrow between and
forgive my ignorance but I don't know what they mean. For example: 12=>15 or
12=>20. Could you please help? I want to make sure I execute it properly.

Thank you

Wes

James, I know its late but I was wondering if you still had your spread sheet and list of metcons? If so, I would love a compy.

parksurg@gmail.com

James, I know this is extremely late but do you still have that spread sheet and list of metcons? If so or if anyone else has a copy it would be much appreciated. regards

twh67@tpg.com.au

James, i do realise this is a year after your post, but I've just read the article and was wondering if you could please send me that spread sheet of those metcons you speak of! it would be very much appreciated!

bycc25@hotmail.com

Ben

apparently 12=>20 and 12=>15 means set and the rep range is in between 12-20 and 12- 15 respectively i think.

Hi Jerrod,

I would be very interested to see the power program you worked on for 6 weeks the build your strength back up.

I too believe what you posted.

If you get this, please send me an email, i would be grateful.

My email mikeyoung.nz@gmail.com

Cheers mate,

Mike

Using Westside's methods in conjunction with Crossfit training will produce positive results. One thing that I learned at Westside is to train your weaknesses. We can all utilize that in our training. We are only as strong as our weakest link. Train the weakness and other areas will benefit as well. Westside's methods have proven results. Crossfit's methods produce results as well. Using the right combination of both will benefit the athelte in many different areas.

I have a question about selecting appropriate metcon's for each day. I've gone through the discussion board and selected a series of heavy metcon's that I like.. i'm just at the point of organizing them into the routine. My question is should I avoid putting similar exercises close together (ie doing a metcons that involve DL on a DL day, or the day after for that matter, OR the day before - same thing goes for squats, presses etc) Whats the general opinion on this? Looks like a chance for injury/over training...

From the article

"“We can take you from a 200-pound max Deadlift to
a 500-750- pound max Deadlift in two years while
only pulling max singles four or five times a year."

Impressive!!!

Jeff would you recommend doing this on a 3 on 1 off or do think that will be too much ?

Hey James,

I would also enjoy taking a look at the spreadsheet. Thanks in advance and thanks for the guys for writing a great article on CFSB.

karlmacphee@shaw.ca

This is an amazing article. Is there any where to get an excel spreadheet that I can use with some of my athletes? Thank you for any help!! Love the information!

I would also love the spreadsheet if your handing it out still

ashleynnavarre@yahoo.com

Thanks for being awesome!

Okay... I have never been any good at programming my own wods or even attempting to alter others, but on say, dealift day, would programing a wod that has an exercise that uses roughly the same muscle groups (and of course other exercises) work or just whatever happens to be on the MP? Bear with me im new to CFSB and pretty young compared to everyone else. Any help is greatly appreciated.

P.S. I will also take a look at some of the wods Mike Hazboun (post #16) was reffering to.

Ok so i have a general question about the strength programming. So if i complete the 6 weeks doing the 3x5 Back Squat on the 7th week when it says reset with new protocol (5x3) or continue linear progression (3x5 in my case)is it worth it to switch to a 5x3 or should i stick with the 3x5 if i have gotten new pr's the last six weeks? Thanks

@ Ethan
It says that if you can continue to hit pr's on 3x5 then do it, but once you feel like that 10 extra pounds or so for a pr is out of reach, then switch to a 3x3 or 5x3

James,

If you're still handing this spreadsheet out, I'd love a copy.

azchris74@gmail.com

Thanks!

Looking at the programing table, it looks like there are no high-rep protocols prescribed for front squats. Do I have that right?

Josh,
You are correct.

I have a couple questions. Can someone please explain when it says something like this for example: "Choose one of the protocols 12-9-6
12=>15 Reps"
Another question. It suggests using 80-85% as your working weight is that of your "1 rep max"? And do you use the 80-85% of that same 1 rep max for all 6 weeks?
Thanks so much!
Also if you have anything additional you can email me at josephwilliams_21@hotmail.com

If anyone still has a copy of the spread sheet it would be most appreciated.

adamleebratley@googlemail.com

Great post. Just what i was looking for.

James,

If you're still handing this spreadsheet out, I'd love a copy.

christopher.e.everett@gmail.com