Speed Days

By Louie Simmons

In Powerlifting, Videos

January 11, 2010

Video Article

The first CrossFit Powerlifting Cert was held Dec. 18-19 at Westside Barbell in Columbus, Ohio, where legendary lifter and coach Louie Simmons shared his methods with a group of elite CrossFit trainers and athletes.

One of the keys to the Westside system is speed training with light weights (about 50 percent 1RM), which means an athlete with a 300-lb. squat may work with only 150 lb. on the bar. While that might seem strange to those dedicated to strict linear progression, Simmons believes increasing your speed and power will actually increase your 1RM numbers and your absolute strength.

In this video shot on Day 1 of the cert, Simmons explains the finer points of speed training and how he “accommodates resistance” with bands and chains to produce optimal gains.

“If you start to lose power, you’re wasting your time,” he says. “If I punch someone three times and don’t hurt ʼem, I’m not going to punch ʼem a fourth time. I’m getting the hell out of there.”

8min 31sec

Additional reading: Speed Development by Karl Geissler and John Baumann, published March 1, 2006.

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Comment

76 Comments on “Speed Days”

1

wrote …

so many things in my head just went 'click'
great video, made a lot of sense and opened up that door a bit more, so now off to get more info on this!

look forward to future vids!

2

wrote …

I need to watch this again with a pen a paper. Wooooh

3

wrote …

This is great info. How do we include this in individual CrossFit practice? Is this part of the CrossFit.com programming, something we should be doing on top of the WODs, or something we incorporate into the WODs (say on 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 days)? It seems like this is info on how to build a great powerlifting program (results are observable, repeatable, measurable, and effective). Any suggestions on how to use these techniques while developing fitness across broad time and modal domains would be appreciated. Pulling from so many different disciplines (gymnastics, olympic lifting, powerlifting, rowing, kettlebells, ect) makes balancing development a challenge. I typically do WODs and include some gymnastics skill practice at the ends - at 6' 4" 190 I'm not a natural powerlifter. Thanks!

4

wrote …

I'm on the same intellectual plain as the 1st two posters. I would truly appreciate a written program for strength/power which could could be uploaded to the journal so that I could truly understand what is being said. Louie S certainly knows his business but I'm just very inexperienced with powerlifting (i.e. 250 pnd back squat and 365 lb DL). Anyways, great stuff but would like to see a program to follow. Thanks in advance.

5

wrote …

Thank goodness for the other Westside guy answering the question...I need a translator for Mr. Simmons....

6

wrote …

This is f-ing fantastic stuff. The precision of the program is impressive, and their patient planning seems to be yielding huge payoffs.

Would love to learn about more links to percentage charts and planning. Awesome.

7

wrote …

Awesome video, but so much of it flew right over my head, I'm going to need to watch this another two or three times.

I hope that we'll get a PDF article that will explain the programming and the rationale of speed days and max effort days in simple terms. I'd like the 'crawl' version before I can start the 'walk' version and get really technical on things. I like the CFSB that I've been doing, but I'm hitting some limits and would like to try different things to push past the plateaus I'm hitting (especially in the press).

Again, great video, thank you, and can't wait for more!

8

wrote …

Does anyone know what 'with gear' means?

9

wrote …

This video was priceless. Ive been aimlessly working on increasing my max lifts for a while now without really having an idea what I am doing. Does anyone have any idea if Louie S. has anything in print? As far as the question in the previous post Im assuming when he references gear he is refering to belts and wraps as apposed to doing the lifts "raw"(no aids such as wraps etc.)

10

replied to comment from William O'Brien

"Gear" refers to assistive clothing like squat suits and bench shirts. These garments especially help with coming out of the bottom of squats and benches, so geared lifters train a little differently than raw lifters. For example, I think geared lifters do relatively more lockout work (think Westside's n-board presses) than raw lifters since they have that relative advantage off the chest.

11

Darren Coughlan wrote …

Nice Video,

Alot of what is in the video mirrors our box's experience and programming for speed.

It works, now I'm more eager to get to one of Louies' certs.

12

wrote …

I agree with some of the posters above, I'd love to see a CFJ article in written form describing how to implement some of this stuff, he jams so much info so quickly, it's a bit hard to follow at times.

13

replied to comment from William O'Brien

I think he is talking about wraps (for your knees when lifting), and a powerlifting suit. Both of these things help in increasing weight marginally and keeping everything "in tact" perhaps with the big lifts under massive amounts of adrenaline and motivation. The "gear" is so tight that you really cant even bend your knees without the weight of the lift pushing you down. Same principle when benching in a bench shirt. Anyone correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is what he is referring to William.

14

wrote …


If you had a hard time following what Louie was saying go to his website:
www.westside-barbell.com or the www.elitefts.com and you'll find lots of articles outlining the westside method. I have started a "Westside-Bias Program" kind of basing it off of the Strength Bias program (which I made some great gains on). I am doing the Max Effort and Dynamic Effort workouts prescribed by Louie and then using carefully planned WODs in place of the "assistance work" to complement them. I've been doing it for two weeks so far so in terms of progress it is way too soon to tell, but I can tell you that I'm having a lot of fun. Box squatting rocks super hard, and I love love love using the chains and bands. As well, doing things like floor presses is totally new and exciting. Keep on bringin on the Westside stuff HQ!!

15

wrote …

Gear is also name for steroids...not sure what the context is in this video though.

16

wrote …

...my mistake he does say "wear gear" at the beginning.

17

Jeff Martin wrote …

Those of you who would like a book that explains this check out the "Westside Barbell Book of Methods". After you read it get yourself to the cert.

Jeff Chester, we have been playing with this stuff for a several months. Have several guys making crazy strength gains.

18

wrote …

This may be a non-sequitor, but we had a Westside guy who is friend of mine come into our box. He hadn't spent much time on the rower and wanted to see how well he'd do. I showed him the ropes and during the warmups he was pulling 5 to 6 strokes at something like 1:21 to 1:25 splits. Our jaws were on the floor.

So anyway, he gears up to row a 2k and we're all thinking this guy might actually hit sub 6:30 on his first time. So he starts rowing. 250 Meters in, his splits slow to about 1:30; then at 500 meters his splits are at about 1:45, then at 700 he's hovering above 2. At 800 he quits. He was so smoked he couldn't breath.

Anyway, just thought I'd share because you this guy is a beast (he does 5 rep deadlifts at 650#) but couldn't hardly last 3 minutes on an erg.

19

wrote …

Louie,

What is it about speed day and 8-10 sets of 2 reps? Can we practice speed with 3-5 sets of 5 reps? Is speed only developed in the first two reps of a set?

This was a great video and I am looking forward to more material from Westside Barbell.

Thank you.

20

replied to comment from Jeff Martin

Awesome, Thanks Jeff. I'll keep at it.

21

replied to comment from William O'Brien

Bench Shirt, Squat Suit....etc

22

Ben,
Im not louie but,
the reason we stick to that is fatique.
Speed requires 'fresh' training. you need to manage the volume with a set load. and its easier to manage with sets of 2.
just like proper/real sprint training on the field or track = as soon as you start slowing down STOP.

23

replied to comment from Kyle Redinger

That is to be expected. The body adapts to the demands placed upon it. He was a power lifter...he can generate lots of force for short periods of time. An Iron Man can generate low levels of force for a long time.

24

wrote …

I don't like how he says "its math". When Coach says something he gets it up on a board and explains the "math" or science behind it. But this just came across as the big guy at the gym saying his way is the way, but can't explain it.. and when you put him on the spotlight he just says "it's math" but never gives you the science proving the math.

Not hating.. just would like Coach Glassmen or someone to give us the truth to this.. rather than taking him at face value cause he has a powerlifting gym.

25

replied to comment from Binnings Bent

Yes, agree. "What, specifically, is the 'math'" ?

Does he finish sentences?


I don't doubt that he gets results, but compared to Crossfit, this is opaque.

26

"Gear" in powerlifting is referring to the use of special equipment to aid the lifter. This includes things like bench shirts, squat suits and so on. This gear affords a level of protection simultaneously allowing the lifter to move heavier loads.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Chris Mason

27

Louie has several books in print to include his Book of Methods which pretty much covers it all. You can get them from his website www.westside-barbell.com or my site www.atlargenutrition.com.

Chris Mason

28

Daniel Clough wrote …

Oh, and the guy Kyle described above it me, lol :). In my defense, I certainly didn't pace myself and had the resistance dialed up WAAAYYYY too high on the rower (all my fault).

This goes back to the S.A.I.D. principle (Specific Adaptation to Implied Demand). I gassed on the rower because I personally do very little GPP, or aerobic work (well, almost none :) ). If I trained for it for a month or so, I bet I could do quite well.

Just to make the point, Louie doesn't want Crossfitters to become powerlifters, rather he wants them to learn a way to augment their current training with absolute strength work. THAT is how Westside principles should be included in Crossfit training.

I was at the first certification seminar and spoke with quite a few of those participating. My recommendation to them was to choose 1 day per week and do some absolute strength work first (ME work in the Westside vernacular). They can then follow that with more standard Crossfit training. Another possibility would be to dedicate one day per week to absolute strength training. I think any Crossfitter would benefit tremendously by either method.

Chris Mason

29

a) Louie has SEVERAL books which clearly demonstrate the math.
b) You are looking at one snippet from the seminar. He provided many examples of the math during the seminar.
c) The math involves varying the load with intensity (as defined as a percentage of 1 repetition maximum).

Nutshell, don't judge just from the video. Get one of Louie's books or videos, or the certification and you will learn a lot more.

30

The reason 3 reps were initially used for speed work is the TUT was relatively the same as a 1 rep maximum with the idea of teaching the body to produce speed in the same time frame as a 1 rep max.

31

Jay Ashman wrote …

Real simple....

Westside methods work for strength gains very well.

If you have questions about how to use them, go to his page or to Elite FTS and read his articles and buy the books.

Don't say "compared to CrossFit... etc" without understand how these methods work and how they can help you.

I have clients now who increased strength gains dramatically, while lowering metcon times, utilizing Westside methods in my programming.

32

wrote …

"WESTSIDE BARBELL BOOK OF METHODS." Fantastic book. Easy to follow yet very thorough. Speed days are really fun. I end up doing my metcons on these days (Sunday and Friday) after I complete my speed bench or squat/dl. I've also tried the jump stretch bands for pressing, push-pressing and push-jerking and they work very well.

33

One thing, go to Louie's site if you want to read his own words. He has a ton of articles archived there (www.westside-barbell.com).

34

replied to comment from Daniel Clough

Hey Chris, it is awesome to have you on here answering questions. I would highly recommend people to check out Chris' forum wannabebig.com and search the powerlifting session for answers to some of your questions. It is hard because Louie uses a whole different language than Crossfit, and you have to learn that language. Crossfit has it's own vernacular, and when you try and explain stuff to people you have to define your terms so that they understand. Some of that is missing from the video. But I would definitely encourage people to read up. I have posted this article before, but if you haven't read it give it a shot: http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/eight_keys_part_ii That article is pretty comprehensive and easy to understand.

35

Daniel Clough wrote …

Thanks Morgan. I'll keep an eye on this stuff and answer any questions I can.

36

Daniel Clough wrote …

Oh, and yes, we have some of the best powerlifters in the world posting on our forums, so please feel free to check them out.

Chris Mason

37

wrote …

Nothing against Simmons, he just talks so fast and loves what he does so much that it's hard to keep up with what's going on in his mind, and his articles on westside-barbell are pretty much the same. I'll have to check out his book and get the complete story- and let's face it, unbiased, Glassman has a better lecturing style. Slow, methodical, he lets things sink in. Louis takes his "speed" days very seriously... (Pun).

38

wrote …

Once you watch enough Louie Simmons videos, he starts to make a whoole lot of sense...even when he doesn't finish his sentences.

39

replied to comment from Daniel Clough

Mason - Time to do a retest :)

40

replied to comment from William O'Brien

I believe the gear he refers to is a squat suit or bench shirt. However, "gear" is also gym slang for anabolics.

41

Zach Even - Esh wrote …

hey guys, I see many have reccomended to read Louie's books, they are correct

Years ago I printed EVERY article from Louie's web site into a 3 ring binder and kept re-reading them and applying them and tweaking them.

Louie would spend time on the phone w/me and we'd talk about training fighters, wrestlers, high school athletes, etc.

The Bench Press Manual is a FAST read and the book of methods is a compilation of his articles plus more additions.

I also have all the westside DVDs, my favorite DVD being the special strengths DVD which has some very kick ass info that many of us CFers will love.

Some seriously crazy shit going down.

This is a f**ing gold mine to have in the CF community & I bet w/Louie's info the CF Total will be changed forever as MANY more people will be getting stronger than ever!

Peace!

--Z--

42

wrote …

I want Rippetoe back! First of all, Rip's lectures were scientfically based and his knowledge of anatomy/exercise physiology was excellent. Simmons' lectures seem unorganized and subjective. And more importantly, Simmons is an admitted steroid user! Check out this interview he gave... http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/the_mad_monk_of_power_lifting_an_interview_with_louie_simmons

Also, the documentary "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" will show how nearly all of his successful athletes are also juicers.

Why is this guy associated with CrossFit???

43

I agree that Louie can be hard to follow at times, but that is the beauty of video. I attended the seminar you are watching in the video and watching the clip above last night I gleamed new information. In other words, Louie moves fast as that is how his minds works, but with video you can watch it repeatedly and pick up on things you may have missed the first time.

Chris Mason

44

wrote …

He reminds me of the typical math teacher: knows his stuff, but can't teach. The pressured speech and multiple tangents are too much to follow. How about a measured, reasoned, written article, briefly explaining his theory and supplemented with specific examples?

45

Ok, first, if you want to reference information being based on science, then Louie trumps them all because his system is based upon the best scientific minds in the world when it comes to resistance training. He tapped the Soviet and Bulgarian weightlifting systems (which were based upon the best science available in their respective countries) for knowledge and then used that information plus his own experience to mold the initial Westside template. Thereafter, he is constantly on the lookout for new and better ways to make improvements.

As for Rippetoe and science, you have to be very careful with the term. For instance, Rippetoe teaches a presumed "perfect" technique for movements like the squat and deadlift and uses "science" to back his opinion. The problem therein is that what is perfect form for me from an anatomical and developmental perspective is likely quite different for you, so his cookie cutter approach is not ideal or truly scientifically sound.

Chris Mason

46

Now that is just an ignorant statement. He can't teach yet he is in demands for lectures, has developed some of the greatest strength athletes of all time, and has consulted with several NFL teams...

Is the man a trained speaker? No. Can he effectively communicate his message to those who choose to listen? YES!

47

replied to comment from Daniel Clough

Chris,

Which country has had the most steriod abuse in the Olympics? I haven't researched the exact numbers of suspensions and bans, but I'd be willing to say that the Communists of the Soviet Union and East Germans started it all. If his science is based on their system of weightlifting, then it isn't much of a stretch to condemn their practices also. Again, Simmons and many of his top athlets are admitted steriod users. How could a non-steroid using CrossFitter expect the same or even similar results? Check out the documentary, "Bigger, Stronger, Faster".

We haven't yet had the opportunity to hear from Simmons regarding technique, so I can't speak to his technical prowess as I can Rippetoe's. Rip seemed to have more of an understanding of precisely how the squat/deadlift worked based on science. A thorough explanation of muscle attachments/insertions, joint angles, and tourque is not "science", as you put it, it is fact.

48

replied to comment from Jeff Martin

Jeff-

Any plans to update CFSB? Strength is my weakness (pun intended) and I've been mixing in CFSB with main site WODs. Since first learning about Louie Simmons, I've been soaking up everything I can about the West-Side methods. I'm now experimenting with a modified CFSB - a max effort squat/deadlift day mixed into one three day WOD block, then a dynamic effort day and a max effort press day mixed into the second WOD block. Repeat.

I plan to experiment, but I'm interested in the types of max effort lifts you are using - are you mixing in high bar and low bar back squats, front squats, overheads, cleans? I know Louie is big into good mornings - have you been using those? Also, what percentages are you working with on dynamic effort day? Reading Louie, he uses 50-65 percent in a three week wave for squats, but I gather that is for elite lifters. Would you recommend those percentages go up to 70-85 percent for someone less accomplished?

I love the information you all are providing - keep it up!

49

wrote …

Thanks for the comments. We'll be rolling out more videos in the coming weeks, which will help you understand Louie's systems further.

And thanks to Chris Mason for chiming in with answers here. Chris and the other Westside athletes were fantastic coaches at the cert.

We'll also be publishing a PDF overview of the Powerlifting Cert and a basic explanation of Westside methods shortly, so keep checking back regularly.

As Chris and others have said, more specific information can be found on the Westside website, and it's worth getting The Westside Barbell Book of Methods for reference if you're really interested in this stuff. You'll find everything in there, including examples. If you're looking for specific programs and one-size-fits-all training plans, Louie is clear in the book that he doesn't provide them, both because he doesn't have time and because he hasn't seen you and doesn't know your strengths and weaknesses. Training is also often tailored to a competition schedule, so volume, intensity and load are highly variable.

The Book of Methods outlines a host of techniques, principles and workouts that have worked for specific lifters, but it's really up to you to apply those principles to your own training as you or your trainer see fit. Louie ran the cert the same way: "Here's what worked for us. Use it as needed." In the Journal, we'll provide you with more information shortly and direct you to additional resources so the CrossFit community can evaluate the Westside program.

You are completely free to dismiss Westside Methods if you believe they won't work for a CrossFitter. A recent scholarly article by Matthew R. Rhea et al. (Alterations in Speed of Squat Movement and Use of Accommodated Resistance Among College Athletes Training for Power) might suggest some of the methods used at Westside may indeed work for more general athletes.

We're only presenting a program that has produced world-class lifters. I believe ignoring that program would be a mistake, just as it would be a mistake to dismiss it outright or endorse it without reflection.

Do with the information what you will, and keep CrossFitting.

Mike
CrossFit Journal

50

wrote …

This stuff makes all kinds of sense to me, unfinished sentences or not.

And the "math" he's speaking of isn't some specialized fitness math or anything of the like- its simple math; Lifting is, as he says, all about math, physics and biomechanics. There's a TON of truth in that statement. Anyone trying to differentiate between Rip and Simmons in terms of foundations should remember that. Just because the methods and specializations are different doesn't mean the foundations aren't exactly the same.

Anyone who's read any of Rip's writings will tell you just how much he takes physics, math and especially biomechanics into consideration- Rip just hides nicely it behind that uniquely cool persona of Loveable Texas Asshole, while Simmons just spits it out raw. Its why both Simmons and Rip are considered Gods of their respective fields- Because their work is based on science, but tested and proven in the trenches of their fields.

As for steroids, do note that un-tested competition powerlifters aren't the only people Simmons teaches, but are simply his bread and butter. Steroids are rampant in those comps, and Simmons is merely playing in a league where ANYTHING goes in order to get the largest lifts possible from your people. Steroids accomplish that, so he uses them. I'd expect that if something better than roids comes along that actually works for taking insanely strong people as far as humanly possible, Simmons would use it instead. I highly doubt the competition folks he trains that are tested as part of their program use steroids, and the fact that they train there without the roids is proof that his methods work without assistance.

There's been a ton of opinion here on why performance trumps science; Simmons' work- like Rip's, and a few others- can be considered as "Applied Science of Lifting".

51

Monique Ames wrote …

I wonder on the application of ME & DE to the Olympic lifts along side with WoDs without causing overtraining?

What would the percentages & reps be for Sn and C&J plus the frequency of training?

Very interesting stuff so far.

Leo S
CF Evolution

52

Scott, I agree; Mr. Simmons speaks, and moves from point-to-point, so quickly that I find it difficult to keep up—and some timesto translate what he's saying.

53

replied to comment from Brian Olaughlin

Brian, you say that "compared to Crossfit, this is opaque." I would argue that, while a multitude of Crossfit programs (namely those of the various affiliates and specialty sites like CFE) are freely available, there's very little information out there about to build those programs. That is, you can see a lot of meals, but there's not much instruction on cooking.

In fact, other than the Theoretical Template from CFJ 6 (from 2003!), most of the explicit programming advice I've seen has come from Crossfit offshoots rather than the mainline: Strengh Bias, ME Black Box, Pierre Auge's template in the PMenu, CFE.

That being said, this clearly hasn't been a problem for affiliates, many (most?) of whom program their own stuff. Is there more info on programming at the Level 1 cert that simply hasn't been made available in another format? Is there just a lot of trial and error, pulling inspiration from other affiliates? Am I missing something entirely?

54

replied to comment from Greg Dontchos

No, it is not fact, because one form which is supposed to suit everyone's anatomy ain't happenin... Think about what you are saying with an open mind. My bone lengths, tendon lengths, and the relative strength of given muscles are MUCH different than yours, thus to prescribe one style of squatting for both of us is not science at all...

The POINT being that people think that something is science simply because big words or scientific terms are used and that is not the definition. I am sure Rippetoe is a smart guy, heck, I sell his books, but I would take Louie on strength training over him any day of the week.

55

replied to comment from Greg Dontchos

Lol, listen, if you think any Olympic sport is free of doping you are very ignorant. Top level athletes in nearly every sport dope in one way or another. Oh, and just an FYI, there are clean guys that train using Louie's methods and do quite well.

Louie has his opinions on steroids and he is entitled to that. Frankly, at least the man is honest unlike SOOOOO many others. Steroids are not the demon they are made out to be in the media in and of themselves. Like anything, abuse leads to bad consequences.

One other point about admitted steroid use and aging guys. How many of you would like to be in the shape Sylvester Stallone is at 64? The guy uses growth and anabolics intelligently, busts his ass in the gym, and looks amazing for it. Louie can lift more, and outwork the vast majority of men half his age of 62. Neither he nor Stallone have dropped dead.

The point is that people should be rational and not jump to conclusions based upon media exploitation.

Do I suggest any Crossfitters use anabolics? Heck no! I DO suggest that you don't let ignorance cloud your judgement of truly amazing training techniques that can and will benefit your Crossfit training.

56

replied to comment from Michael Warkentin

You're welcome. I enjoy the opportunity to engage the Crossfit audience with some new ideas.

Chris

57

replied to comment from Monique Ames

Louie would suggest you don't apply the principles specifically to those lifts. Rather, he would tell you to build your absolute strength using other exercises and his techniques which would then translate to better Olympic lifts. He uses the example of Paul Anderson in his lectures. Paul decided he could improve his Olympic lifting by getting stronger in his legs, hips, back, and shoulders. In other words, rather than work the specific lifts to get better as was the norm in his day, he squatted with huge loads and the like to build his basic power which would then translate to bigger O lifts. The rest is history...

58

wrote …

Everyone is making judgements of science and facts based on this 3 minute video...uhh wake up. www.westside-barbell.com contains all the info you're asking for "proof" of, go look.

59

Daniel Schmieding wrote …

Many of you are acting absurd.

This information is gold. We're lucky it is available to us for free (oh, I'm sorry, about $20/year).

Louis' website has tons of information, much like CrossFit.com!

We all know Rip was fantastic as a resource, and will forever remain in my bookmarks and on my bookshelf.

That being said, any of you contending, in any way, that "Rip knows his stuff and Louis doesn't" clearly have not done enough research in the field.

Can I just take anabolic steroids and become a champion powerlifter without having some of the best training in the world? No. And neither can you, so please don't allude such unintelligible nonsense.

Chris Mason: Thank you for extending your support, explanation, and knowledge to this forum. I had no idea who you were before a few months ago, though I had been to your website (embarrassing?).

I know a valuable resource when I'm fed one with a golden spoon. We're lucky to have you guys on board for any amount of time.

60

wrote …

Louie is the man.

Here's what it boils down to though (in my opinion). Probably 95% of CrossFitters are weak. The simple solution to this is to do a linear progression program (ala Starting Strength).

It's great for trainers/coaches to understand the Westside method, but pendulum wave should not even be in your vocabulary unless you are squatting well over 2X BW.

Rip has a very well developed and proven method for getting average people, aka 95+% of CF'ers (novices in the strength world) strong: basic linear progression on the core lifts based around squatting. This does not disparage Louie at all as he is a world class strength coach in his own right, I just think it's misguided on CrossFit's part, when you see people commenting about trying to somehow use this type of programming in addition to mainsite CF WODs, it shows a lack of basic understanding of strength programming.

61

wrote …

Chris,

The arguement about Rip advocating a cookie cutter approach to each lifters technique on any lift is moot. He continuously affirms through each of his texts to use your judgement and adjust your individual anthropomotry(differences in muscular/bone systems) to use your levers more efficently.

With that said, Louie brings trophy's to the table and his proven methods have much to offer any athlete. Turning things into a Rip Vs Simmons debate leaves this discussion stuck in the mud.

62

wrote …

Westside is the mecca of world class powerlifters. This information is invaluable. I have struggled for many years with getting "stuck" in my strength on the power lifts. Now I understand a probable cause, overtraining and accommodation.

Using this method will allow me to keep the volume high without over training and I hopefully will see results.

As far as these elite world class athletes using steroids, folks wake up, take a look at any elite professional athlete today in football, baseball, basketball, or even golf....compare their physique with athletes from 30 years ago....now you decide if they look and perform this way because of training and the food they eat or because they could possibly taking performance enhancing drugs?

When a modern day NFL defensive back looks like a Mr. Olympia from the 1970's then it should open your eyes. Elite professional athletes take PED's or they would not be at the top of their field today.

Not judging, just facing reality. You can still learn a lot from these elite athletes and coaches regardless of your opinion on what they ingested.

63

wrote …

Reply to # 46: Nothing "ignorant" about it. My analogy holds: lots of Ph.D.s in math hold teaching positions at major universities and are terrible teachers. Louie reminds me of them. They're terrible teachers,yet they have Ph.D.s and teach at prestigious universities, you ask? Yep! All the time.

64

replied to comment from Chris Mason

Chris,

I think you misread my comment about doping in the Olympics. Nowhere did I say that any particular sport in the Olympics are free of doping. I stated that the East Germans and Soviets were the first to use anabolics in the Olympics, and if Simmons borrowed their scientific methods of weightlifting, then it is safe to say that he is a proponent of steriods. And he is a proponent of using steroids.

And once again, you misread my comment about Rip/Simmons knowledge of anatomy, exercise phys, etc. So, like I said, I can't speak to Simmons' technical expertise because I haven't yet had the opportunity to hear it.

While I enjoy the debate, it's very futile as you are here on the message board simply to support Simmons' methods because you train with him, which is understandable.

65

replied to comment from Graeme Howland

Graeme said: "I just think it's misguided on CrossFit's part, when you see people commenting about trying to somehow use this type of programming in addition to mainsite CF WODs, it shows a lack of basic understanding of strength programming."

Dude,
I think that statement is a little presumptuous, no? I don't think you have to worry about 90 pound weaklings buying monolifts and trying to use safety squat bars to go for a max goodmorning without any kind of previous training.
Do you know who Jeff Martin is and what the people at his gym are capable of? I know you don't know my background as a coach or athlete or my level of understanding of strength programming. Do I think that someone who has never worked out before should jump in and try and use this stuff? No. However, if you have a few years of lifting under your belt you aren't gonna lose anything by giving it a try. Louie has used this system with teenagers and had amazing results that have produced world records, so I would have to say that Rips system which is awesome, is not the only one that can get you strong. Everything works, but not everything works forever.

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replied to comment from Daniel Schmieding

Thank you Daniel!

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replied to comment from Nathan Austin

Ok, fair enough. I had not seen him (Rippetoe) advocating different form for different folks. In fact, I thought it was the opposite. I'll have to take a closer look at his books.

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replied to comment from Greg Dontchos

... and perhaps I do so because I had been training for nearly 2 decades prior to getting to know Louie and his methods well and once I took the time to understand his concepts I decided they were about as good as it gets. Something many of you may not know about Louie is that he is ALWAYS looking for a better way. In fact, Westside is constantly morphing because they are trying new things. What you get with Louie and Westside is the best of the best and the most cutting edge training information. That is what makes him so unique.

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wrote …

First off, let me say I love both Rip and Louie - they are both experts in their field. However, they both teach different things. Rip is about taking beginners and making them stronger, hence Starting Strength. Louie is about taking very good people and making them great. I think the average person would have to be doing Crossfit for a year or two before even thinking about looking at Louie's stuff - they just wouldn't have the strength or knowledge base to use it.

It seems to me that Crossfit is in the process of growing up or maturing to the audience they serve. They've been around for more than a few years now, hence what was revolutionary back in 2002 may be stagnant to someone who have been doing the program for five years. They are evolving into something more complex to help serve this population. The problem I see is that it comes at the expense of the newbie. For example, I do Paleo for my diet. It works for me time wise and I have no desire to compete in the games anytime soon. I could see where an elite Crossfitter who had some type of competion (games or not) would find The Zone much better suited for them. Same with the shift in the powerlifting phylosophy. For a beginner, I feel starting strength would be the way to go, but after being in the program for several years, progressive resistance gets stale and you would need something like the Westside method to not only jump start your training, but get you to that elite level if you were competing. Its a shame that Rip decided to leave, because I feel that there is room for both training philosophies in Crossfit, but I don't begrudge Louie because of it. He is a goldmine of information and the community is lucky to be associated with him.

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wrote …

Absolutely awesome. I want to learn more.

Thanks for the video.

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wrote …

A big +1 to both of the previous comments.


Bottom line: life is complicated. And no one has a monopoly on truth or virtue.


CrossFit doesn't make things simpler than they need to be. Neither does it make things more complicated than they need to be. CrossFit teaches us to be suspicious of dogma and publishes articles about the need to to take a reasoned approach about drawing conclusions from facts.


Yet detractors say CrossFit is rigid..or dogmatic....or even "cult-like." Lovers of irony will just smile. It's pretty funny. All part of life's rich pageant!

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wrote …

Great video!!

Think I will apply the 12 week 1RM% power periodization program as an adjunct to my regular CF metcon conditioning and see how my numbers look from start to finish. Love the raw exercise sci and methods coming out of the community now.
Great thing to be a part of and to understand.

Thanks for the Vid HQ and hope to see more of this stuff

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wrote …

I am going to assume, and safely in my opinion, that most of the people with the negative or the I can't understand him comments are Level 1 certified and have yet to learn that while CrossFit is amazing it is not the only way to do things. Also there is an article or maybe just from the start here portion but I am not sure, and its straight from Glassman's mouth or writing or whatever and it is referenced in the CFSB article. “We can take you from a 200-pound max Deadlift to a 500-750 pound max Deadlift in two years while only pulling max singles four or five times a year. We will work the Deadlift, like most lifts, approximately once per week at higher reps and under grueling conditions. It may intuit well that if you can pull a 250-pound Deadlift 21 times coming to the lift at a heart rate of 180 beats per minute, then 500 pounds for a single at a resting heart rate is perhaps
manageable.” Its like your saying its ok to question Louie's method but not Coach's and while I love Coach and what he's brought to fitness Louie was desinging and building this method before CrossFit was a glimmer in coaches eye, dont be so nieve people.

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replied to comment from Nicholas Carcerano

Why do people say that Louie's methods are not for beginners? He has taken high school kids and made them better athletes. He has trained lifters with the highest teens lifts ever and so on. His stuff works for ALL levels of experience.

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replied to comment from Chris Mason

I can't speak from anyone's experience but my own, but there is no way I would have been able to do Louie's stuff right off the back. It took me a good two years in high school just to master correct technique in the bench, and squat, probably just now, 25 years later, getting truely comfortable in deadlift. I know if I had tried doing Westside stuff without the proper strength and technique level, I probably would have hurt myself, good coaching or not. Maybe beginners these days are better than I, but I believe in having a solid technique and strength base (similar to Starting Strength), before moving on to something more complex like Westside.

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wrote …

The link doesn't work, where else can I find this video?

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